Ann Ruben
07-23 11:37 PM
The AC21 determination of whether a new job is in "the same or similar occupation" is made based on a comparison of the new job duties and those set forth on the original labor certification application. Job titles are not controlling. So, you need to have a copy of your original LC application and then compare the job description it contains to the duties of the new position.
USCIS has not provide much guidance on what will or will not qualify as the "same or similar" occupational classification. What little guidance exists comes from a 2005 memo to Service Centers from Michael Aytes:
"Question 3. What is “same or similar” occupational classification for purposes of I-140 portability?
Answer: When making a determination if the new employment is the “same or similar” occupational classification in comparison to the employment in the initial I-140, adjudicators should consider the following factors:
A. Description of the job duties contained in the ETA 750A or the initial I-140 and the job duties of the new employment to determine if they are the “same or similar” occupational classification.
B. The DOT code and/or SOC code assigned to the initial I-140 employment for petitions that have a certified ETA 750A or consider what DOT and/or SOC code is appropriate for the position for an initial I-140 that did not require a certified ETA 750A. Then consider the DOT code and/or SOC code, whichever is appropriate for the new position to make a determination of “same or similar” occupational classification.
C. A substantial discrepancy between the previous and the new wage. (See Question 5 of this section for further clarification).
Question 5. Should service centers or district officers use a difference in the wage offered on the approved labor certification and initial I-140, and the new employment as basis for denial in adjustment portability cases?
Answer: No. As noted above the relevant inquiry is if the new position is the same or similar occupational classification to the alien’s I-140 employment. A difference in the wage offered on the approved labor certification, initial I-140 and the new employment cannot be used as a basis of a denial. However, a substantial discrepancy between the previous and the new wage may be taken into consideration as a factor in determining if the new employment is 'same or similar.'"
The bottom line is that in order to establish that your new position is in the same or similar occupational classification, you must first compare the specific job duties described in the original application for labor certification to the specific job duties of the new position. Nothing from USCIS specifically addresses what percentage of identical job duties would be required, but the closer to 100% the better. Job titles do not matter, job duties do. Next, you need to find the DOT USDOL/Office of Administrative Law Judges Home Page and/or SOC Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) System codes written on your original LC/I-140 and compare the occupational descriptions for those codes to the job duties of your new position. USCIS has never indicated what percentage of identical/similar job duties will suffice in either of the comparisons. Most likely it must be more than 50%, and the closer to 100% the better. Finally, a substantial difference in salary is not determinative, but, in a close case may lead to a denial. To combat this, reference can be made to the DOL's Online Wage Library FLCDataCenter.com current wage survey for the occupation. If the new salary is within the range indicated for the original SOC occupation, you can make a strong argument that the increase is due to the passage of time and not to a change in occupational classification.
USCIS has not provide much guidance on what will or will not qualify as the "same or similar" occupational classification. What little guidance exists comes from a 2005 memo to Service Centers from Michael Aytes:
"Question 3. What is “same or similar” occupational classification for purposes of I-140 portability?
Answer: When making a determination if the new employment is the “same or similar” occupational classification in comparison to the employment in the initial I-140, adjudicators should consider the following factors:
A. Description of the job duties contained in the ETA 750A or the initial I-140 and the job duties of the new employment to determine if they are the “same or similar” occupational classification.
B. The DOT code and/or SOC code assigned to the initial I-140 employment for petitions that have a certified ETA 750A or consider what DOT and/or SOC code is appropriate for the position for an initial I-140 that did not require a certified ETA 750A. Then consider the DOT code and/or SOC code, whichever is appropriate for the new position to make a determination of “same or similar” occupational classification.
C. A substantial discrepancy between the previous and the new wage. (See Question 5 of this section for further clarification).
Question 5. Should service centers or district officers use a difference in the wage offered on the approved labor certification and initial I-140, and the new employment as basis for denial in adjustment portability cases?
Answer: No. As noted above the relevant inquiry is if the new position is the same or similar occupational classification to the alien’s I-140 employment. A difference in the wage offered on the approved labor certification, initial I-140 and the new employment cannot be used as a basis of a denial. However, a substantial discrepancy between the previous and the new wage may be taken into consideration as a factor in determining if the new employment is 'same or similar.'"
The bottom line is that in order to establish that your new position is in the same or similar occupational classification, you must first compare the specific job duties described in the original application for labor certification to the specific job duties of the new position. Nothing from USCIS specifically addresses what percentage of identical job duties would be required, but the closer to 100% the better. Job titles do not matter, job duties do. Next, you need to find the DOT USDOL/Office of Administrative Law Judges Home Page and/or SOC Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) System codes written on your original LC/I-140 and compare the occupational descriptions for those codes to the job duties of your new position. USCIS has never indicated what percentage of identical/similar job duties will suffice in either of the comparisons. Most likely it must be more than 50%, and the closer to 100% the better. Finally, a substantial difference in salary is not determinative, but, in a close case may lead to a denial. To combat this, reference can be made to the DOL's Online Wage Library FLCDataCenter.com current wage survey for the occupation. If the new salary is within the range indicated for the original SOC occupation, you can make a strong argument that the increase is due to the passage of time and not to a change in occupational classification.
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NO_Free_Rider
09-14 12:47 PM
Looks like your I140s denied for ability to pay (based on the RFEs). But also you were paid more than the prevailing wages! Per my exp, even if company makes loss, but you were getting paid, it shouldn't be a reason for denial.
I came to US on H1B in 2000. I have an engineering degree (10+2+4) from a premier institute in India in Information Systems. Before coming to US I worked for an MNC for 4+ years. I am with the current employer since 2003. Following are my case details.
Case 1:
EB2 Labor filed: April 2005
Labor Approved: December 2005
I-140 Filed: January 2006
RFE for Ability 2 pay and RFE replied.
I-140 Denied: August 2007
Never recieved the denial notice as per the lawyer
Case 2:
EB2 Labor filed: August 2005
Labor Approved: January 2006
I-140 Filed: August 2007 (I checked the status online and informed the lawyer who immediately filed for this I-140 basing on the approved labor)
I-485 Filed: August 2007
RFE for W2/wages company tax information etc that were replied on time.
I-140 Denied Sep 2009
EAD valid till October: 2010
AP Valid till Feb 2010
H1 B 8th year extension filed: July 2008 (There was a mistake during the filing as the reference was made to denied I-140 instead of the pending one)
Extension Denied based on Case 1 I-140: October 2008
I-290B Appeal to commissioner filed and pending as of date
Case 3:
Pending EB2 labor since October 2008.
I am paid more than the prevailing wages. Now the question is:
1. Should I file for MTR/Appeal (we still haven't recieved the denial notice).
2. I believe it is just a matter of time before I-485 status changes to denied. Will the EAD/AP become invalid as well?
3. If MTR/Appeal is filed for I-140, can I still continue working?
Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.
I came to US on H1B in 2000. I have an engineering degree (10+2+4) from a premier institute in India in Information Systems. Before coming to US I worked for an MNC for 4+ years. I am with the current employer since 2003. Following are my case details.
Case 1:
EB2 Labor filed: April 2005
Labor Approved: December 2005
I-140 Filed: January 2006
RFE for Ability 2 pay and RFE replied.
I-140 Denied: August 2007
Never recieved the denial notice as per the lawyer
Case 2:
EB2 Labor filed: August 2005
Labor Approved: January 2006
I-140 Filed: August 2007 (I checked the status online and informed the lawyer who immediately filed for this I-140 basing on the approved labor)
I-485 Filed: August 2007
RFE for W2/wages company tax information etc that were replied on time.
I-140 Denied Sep 2009
EAD valid till October: 2010
AP Valid till Feb 2010
H1 B 8th year extension filed: July 2008 (There was a mistake during the filing as the reference was made to denied I-140 instead of the pending one)
Extension Denied based on Case 1 I-140: October 2008
I-290B Appeal to commissioner filed and pending as of date
Case 3:
Pending EB2 labor since October 2008.
I am paid more than the prevailing wages. Now the question is:
1. Should I file for MTR/Appeal (we still haven't recieved the denial notice).
2. I believe it is just a matter of time before I-485 status changes to denied. Will the EAD/AP become invalid as well?
3. If MTR/Appeal is filed for I-140, can I still continue working?
Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.
jonty_11
08-13 06:13 PM
BE FIRST TO GET A FREE TICKET TO HAWAI...........
What an innovative name for a thread to attract attention..............
What an innovative name for a thread to attract attention..............
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samcam
05-19 11:34 AM
welcome to our newest member darlynb... 3873 and counting...
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Phogs
06-23 10:00 PM
You can go to Mexico (Methamoras OR Tijuana) to get visa stamp, then go to india. It's very quick and easy to get an appointment. i did it on last october and then went to india within month and came back in Jan 2008.
DID THE SAME THING! WENT TO TIJUANA, MEXICO FOR STAMPING. T'WAS PRETTY QUICK AND EASY. MAKE SURE ALL DOCUMENTS ARE LEGAL THOUGH... ANYBODY GOING TO TIJUANA? MAKE SURE TO VISIT PLAZA DE LOS HEROS..CHEAP CORONA BEER THERE, JUST A BUCK A PIECE, WHICH I INDULGE AFTER GETTING MY VISA STAMPED... :D
CAUTION: MAKE SURE THAT UR SOBER AT POE!!! :D
DID THE SAME THING! WENT TO TIJUANA, MEXICO FOR STAMPING. T'WAS PRETTY QUICK AND EASY. MAKE SURE ALL DOCUMENTS ARE LEGAL THOUGH... ANYBODY GOING TO TIJUANA? MAKE SURE TO VISIT PLAZA DE LOS HEROS..CHEAP CORONA BEER THERE, JUST A BUCK A PIECE, WHICH I INDULGE AFTER GETTING MY VISA STAMPED... :D
CAUTION: MAKE SURE THAT UR SOBER AT POE!!! :D
solraj
03-19 01:24 PM
Check with the employer and the designated lawyer if they received a notice saying 140 denied.If not check with your employer and see how the trend is wrt 140 approvals recently if anyone got approvals or any denials if yes is it an Ability to pay or Education.Either way you can file a Motion to reopen for both 140 and 485.I believe it has to be done in 30 days. So you should really rush getting this done.I would advise doing it from a very experienced lawyer than the actual lawyer who filed your original cae.
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natrajs
08-18 04:26 PM
Mine Got approved in 6 Days in TSC
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ram_ram
01-05 10:51 AM
I contributed my 10 cents..Just now.
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h1bmajdoor
05-24 04:40 PM
the underlying problem, is not that american kids are not smart or hard working.
it is that science/math/engg does not pay. it does not pay because the wheelers/dealers/fixers/middlemen/bullshitters make the money.
american kids work hard when at law school/med school/mba. because those jos pay. as an engineer you are screwed. as a phd likely unemployed.
so, american kids are not dumb. they are far smarter than you think. they are taken the correct decision in the circumstances.
it is that science/math/engg does not pay. it does not pay because the wheelers/dealers/fixers/middlemen/bullshitters make the money.
american kids work hard when at law school/med school/mba. because those jos pay. as an engineer you are screwed. as a phd likely unemployed.
so, american kids are not dumb. they are far smarter than you think. they are taken the correct decision in the circumstances.
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panky72
08-03 01:47 PM
Panky,
Copy the text from Pappu's post. Go to Edit Signature option under User CP. Paste your copied text in the box. Now highlight "contributing to immigrationvoice" and then click on "globe-like" button right below "smily" button. This will pop-up the hyperlink box. Type of copy this in to the box "http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=44"]contributing to immigrationvoice"
Thanks ebizash. Updated my signature.:)
Copy the text from Pappu's post. Go to Edit Signature option under User CP. Paste your copied text in the box. Now highlight "contributing to immigrationvoice" and then click on "globe-like" button right below "smily" button. This will pop-up the hyperlink box. Type of copy this in to the box "http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26&Itemid=44"]contributing to immigrationvoice"
Thanks ebizash. Updated my signature.:)
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gaz
02-04 01:11 AM
I just got the H1 Approval for 1 year and 2 months (1 year H1 Extension and 2 months recapture time). I am currently in Malaysia and need to apply for a visa at US Consulate in Malaysia. Since I am on the H1 visa, I have to show the proof that I will return back to Malaysia after the end of my work period in US. Accordingly, I would need to purchase the round trip ticket. The issue is that the plane ticket only valid for the maximum of 1 year, but my visa valid for 1 year and 2 months. Please advise if one way plane ticket would be sufficient for the visa interview or need to be a round trip plane ticket. If it is not, what should I do? Also, I wonder if the application package including I-129 submitted to USCIS need to be stamped �Certified True Copy� with the original signature of the lawyer or employer for the visa interview. Can I use the copy one that is stamped �Certified True Copy� with the non-original signatures of my lawyer or employer? Anybody pls help. Thank you very much.
I'm not an attorney - so please treat this as my opinion, and not a definitive statement of fact. Based on my personal experience in India, the one year ticket should be fine - you can always postpone the date of the ticket whenever needed (some airlines charge a fee for it). The proof of return is more like an intent to return.
As for the I129 - my lawyer added no such stamps or certification.
Please do check with your lawyer also. Also, try calling the US consulate.
Good luck.
I'm not an attorney - so please treat this as my opinion, and not a definitive statement of fact. Based on my personal experience in India, the one year ticket should be fine - you can always postpone the date of the ticket whenever needed (some airlines charge a fee for it). The proof of return is more like an intent to return.
As for the I129 - my lawyer added no such stamps or certification.
Please do check with your lawyer also. Also, try calling the US consulate.
Good luck.
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WillIWin?
02-18 10:16 AM
Hello everyone,
I know this topic is taboo and probably raised eleswhere, but I couldn't help wonder one thing.
The BECs have shut down and no more LCs are pending. Also labour substitution is not allowed anymore. So does that not mean that from this point onwards we should NEVER see the priority dates retrogress any further? I mean isint that logical or am I missing something major? Until now, the pending LCs in the BECs were hanging like a sword over our heads, but now that problem is gone (i know a lot of people have suffered over the years for the same and I respect that).
I guess my question is: Is there ANY possible reason for the PDs for any country to further retrogress?
Your reasoning is nearly correct. But you are missing Two points:
1. There will be some cases from BECs which could not file AOSs in time since their labors did not clear for them in the july/aug timeframe. Only when these have cleared will the chances of further retrogression decrease.
2. ALSO - Just as an example, If there are 100000 Eb2s with PDs of 2005. We know that there are NOT 10000 visa #s available for EB2s, in that case too, the dates will retrogress - since thats the only way they can prevent visa #s being used.
Am I making much sense ?
I know this topic is taboo and probably raised eleswhere, but I couldn't help wonder one thing.
The BECs have shut down and no more LCs are pending. Also labour substitution is not allowed anymore. So does that not mean that from this point onwards we should NEVER see the priority dates retrogress any further? I mean isint that logical or am I missing something major? Until now, the pending LCs in the BECs were hanging like a sword over our heads, but now that problem is gone (i know a lot of people have suffered over the years for the same and I respect that).
I guess my question is: Is there ANY possible reason for the PDs for any country to further retrogress?
Your reasoning is nearly correct. But you are missing Two points:
1. There will be some cases from BECs which could not file AOSs in time since their labors did not clear for them in the july/aug timeframe. Only when these have cleared will the chances of further retrogression decrease.
2. ALSO - Just as an example, If there are 100000 Eb2s with PDs of 2005. We know that there are NOT 10000 visa #s available for EB2s, in that case too, the dates will retrogress - since thats the only way they can prevent visa #s being used.
Am I making much sense ?
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pmpforgc
03-28 08:46 PM
Hi
I am changing my employment and will be going to reside in Memphis, TN
My employment will be in the Arkansas State !! and My Family will be in GA for some time, I have a Part for the income this year 2009 in GA too!!
Just to add this year (2008) I have to file state taxes for South Carolina as well as GA!!
Looks like my tax story will get more interesting in 2009!!
So what will be my Tax status in Case of TN and AR? Do I will need to file taxes in both state for 2009?
thanks for your experienced input that will help me to be little proactive in this matter.
I am changing my employment and will be going to reside in Memphis, TN
My employment will be in the Arkansas State !! and My Family will be in GA for some time, I have a Part for the income this year 2009 in GA too!!
Just to add this year (2008) I have to file state taxes for South Carolina as well as GA!!
Looks like my tax story will get more interesting in 2009!!
So what will be my Tax status in Case of TN and AR? Do I will need to file taxes in both state for 2009?
thanks for your experienced input that will help me to be little proactive in this matter.
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Jaime
09-12 03:03 PM
Come on guys! We can't let Ranga get sucked into the U.S. Reverse Brain Drain!!! Nor can we let any of the 500,000 of us get sucked in either!!! Let's go to Washington next week!!!!
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mambarg
09-26 12:41 PM
If you see data.
Approvals started happening only in JUNE, JULY, AUG, SEP.
So all applications till first few weeks of JUNE have got VISA numbers and are getting approved.
Those who filed after JUNE 15th, need to wait till next week i.e Oct 1, to get VISA assigned.
But only those current in Oct will get VISA number assigned.
Also worry is they may take it easy and wait till next May/June to start the RUSH or if they keep the pace, then the july fiasco is acutally a boon to all waiting . Imagine, the GC process time is 3-4 months now instead of years.
Things have definitely changed for better at USCIS due to fiasco.
Approvals started happening only in JUNE, JULY, AUG, SEP.
So all applications till first few weeks of JUNE have got VISA numbers and are getting approved.
Those who filed after JUNE 15th, need to wait till next week i.e Oct 1, to get VISA assigned.
But only those current in Oct will get VISA number assigned.
Also worry is they may take it easy and wait till next May/June to start the RUSH or if they keep the pace, then the july fiasco is acutally a boon to all waiting . Imagine, the GC process time is 3-4 months now instead of years.
Things have definitely changed for better at USCIS due to fiasco.
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Coppertop
10-07 04:27 PM
Thanks! *insert extra large grin here*
can a mod please edit the poll as asked by Phat7
can a mod please edit the poll as asked by Phat7
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imm_check
11-06 06:34 PM
From what you have mentioned, the answer to your question lies in the notice that USCIS has sent to your attorney....The letter should have exactly the steps needed and the time to respond....Your best bet is to request the attorney to send you a copy of the letter....
Personally, I think USCIS would request the empoyer to sign the check or re-issue a new one and send it within 30 days....it is not a big deal....
All the best....
Do they send a 797 Notice of action?
Personally, I think USCIS would request the empoyer to sign the check or re-issue a new one and send it within 30 days....it is not a big deal....
All the best....
Do they send a 797 Notice of action?
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PavanV
11-19 07:39 PM
The OP poster was not scorning against the average american, I think you are mixing two issues up, I am sure he has done his share of charity work, and he probably sympathizes with families who don't have a job, I don't think you can direct your anger against him.
This is a capitalistic society not a communist or a socialist society, the market will/should balance itself out, new industries come up, people get hired, if the attitude of the people is protectionist, which it is, it stifles innovation and growth, which in turns stifles the growth of new companies, which in turn would have helped the folks laid off get a job. Being emotional is OK, but one must be pragmatic. That said, i believe charity begins at home, one must take care of its own kith and kin before extending arms to others.
May there be peace (Om shanti Om)
No I am not Indian, but that still makes me a H1B and greencard aplicant. So please, Antis might dislike us but that does not make them racist and hatefull against only Indians, you are not the only ones in the boat...dont make Indians the only important people here.
Plus a lot of the antis are probably people who lost a job and are finding someone to point the finger at, not right, but understandable.
I have Amercian friends who went from a good middleclass family to now being on foodstamps and not knowing how to feed their kids the next day, they dont hate me but they are upset and frustrated and scared...
Fear drives people to find a black sheep but let us not jump in there too and start hating...
Sorry but I read many many messages on forums before I finally loose my patience with the Indians only messages...lets try to not segregate but work together.:mad:
This is a capitalistic society not a communist or a socialist society, the market will/should balance itself out, new industries come up, people get hired, if the attitude of the people is protectionist, which it is, it stifles innovation and growth, which in turns stifles the growth of new companies, which in turn would have helped the folks laid off get a job. Being emotional is OK, but one must be pragmatic. That said, i believe charity begins at home, one must take care of its own kith and kin before extending arms to others.
May there be peace (Om shanti Om)
No I am not Indian, but that still makes me a H1B and greencard aplicant. So please, Antis might dislike us but that does not make them racist and hatefull against only Indians, you are not the only ones in the boat...dont make Indians the only important people here.
Plus a lot of the antis are probably people who lost a job and are finding someone to point the finger at, not right, but understandable.
I have Amercian friends who went from a good middleclass family to now being on foodstamps and not knowing how to feed their kids the next day, they dont hate me but they are upset and frustrated and scared...
Fear drives people to find a black sheep but let us not jump in there too and start hating...
Sorry but I read many many messages on forums before I finally loose my patience with the Indians only messages...lets try to not segregate but work together.:mad:
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ameryki
03-17 04:30 PM
I don't remember immi status even coming up during mortgage appli!
mundada
09-05 04:54 PM
no you do not have to wait.
gcformeornot
10-16 07:07 AM
was some issues with employer like A2P or something....
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